About Him: "The Interview About Us"   

This is an interview written by Debbie sharing her personal relationship with Jesus.  This is her love story, a friendship that changed her life.  Debbie’s prayer is that you will also discover a relationship with Christ because in it you’ll find unconditional love, forgiveness, peace, fun and joy.  Life is hard but God is good and although He might not give you all the answers to your “whys” He wants you to know that He’s the way to experience a meaningful life.  Receive the freedom He gives and you’ll realize as Debbie does…Life is all About Him.


Q: When did you meet Jesus?

I was baptized as an infant in this big and beautiful stone church--St. Stephen’s Episcopal in Edina, MN, where I attended Sunday school up until we moved to “the woods” when I was five. I learned the basic theology for preschoolers: the apple, the flood, the manger, the cross—all made fun with circle time, orange drink and graham crackers.

But I didn’t meet Jesus until I was seven years old. My Aunt Ginger, who was on staff with Campus Crusade for Christ, presented me with the Good News Glove, which she used as she explained the Gospel, one fall day in 1974 at the home of Grandpa Marco and Grandma Polly in Moorhead, MN.

Auntie: Debbie, this glove tells a wonderful story of the Good News God wants you to know. Wanna hear it?
Debbie: Yes, and do I get to wear the glove?
Auntie: You bet! Now, this first yellow finger tells you God loves you and has a great plan for your life. God is light and He wants us to live in the light, not darkness.
Debbie: Okay.
Auntie: Next, this dark finger tells us all people are sinful and separated from God. That’s why they can’t know and enjoy God’s love and plan for their lives.
Debbie: So we need to go to Jesus who is the yellow light.
Auntie: Exactly. The red finger tells us Jesus died for us and we can be saved from our sin by the blood He shed for us on the cross.
Debbie: What’s sin?
Auntie: Sin is not knowing God, not caring about God. It’s when we only want to have our way, and not trust and follow God’s way. When we are unkind, tell a lie, cheat, steal, hate someone, or disobey God to follow our plans instead of His…that’s sin.
Debbie: Yeah, okay. But I’m a good girl.
Auntie: I know you are my “Little Baby Tender Love.” But Debbie, it’s not about being good. God loves all the people He created. He just doesn’t love the bad things they do. He doesn’t love our sin and we’ve all sinned. So that’s why He died on the cross. Because God is holy He had to punish sin but because He’s loving He didn’t want to punish us! God, Who is perfect, was punished for our sins. He took our place.
Debbie: Okay, so you mean because of our sin we are separated from God?
Auntie: Yes, Debbie! You’re getting it!
Debbie: I know that Christmastime is about Jesus being born and Easter time is when Jesus died on the cross.
Auntie: Yes, Debbie, but more importantly Easter is celebrating that Jesus came off the cross. was buried, and rose again three days later!
Debbie: I like coloring eggs and Easter baskets.
Auntie: Me, too. But Debbie, it’s not enough just to know the three things I told you: God loves you, you’ve sinned and Jesus died, was buried, and rose three days later. The white finger on the glove says that to have a new, clean life you need to receive Jesus Christ as your Savior!
Debbie: What do you mean?
Auntie: The Bible says; Jesus is God’s free gift of love to you! If I had a gift for you right now, would you say, “Oh, no thanks, I don’t want it?” You would take it, wouldn’t you? A gift is ours as soon as we receive it.
Debbie: I like gifts.
Auntie: Do you want to receive the gift of Jesus and ask Him to come into your heart?
Debbie: You mean He will live in my heart?
Auntie: Yes. It’s amazing but He can live in all our hearts by us asking Him to come into our lives and have a friendship with Him. He promises then to always be with us and never leave us.
Debbie: Okay.
Auntie: Wonderful! I’ll pray and you can repeat after me.
Debbie: Sure.
Auntie: Dear Jesus, I agree that I have sinned and I want to have a new clean life. I receive Jesus Christ, your gift of love, into my heart and life as my Savior. Thank You, Jesus that You’re now in my life forever and I will be with You in heaven someday. AMEN
Debbie: (Debbie repeats after Auntie Ginger) …AMEN!
Auntie: And now, the last color on the glove we are going to talk about is the green color. Green makes us think of growing things. Debbie, as you grow physically, you need to grow spiritually.
Debbie: How do I do that?
Auntie: You will grow as you pray and talk to God and become close friends with Him. You’ll get to know Him best by reading the Bible and then obeying it. And then you’ll want to tell others about the Good News of Jesus too!
Debbie: Okay. Can I run over to the twin’s house, next door to Grandpa and Grandma’s, and share the Good News glove with them?
Auntie: Sure. But give me a hug first. I’m so proud of you.

And truly that is how my wonderful friendship with Jesus began, all at the age of seven from Auntie Gin and the multi-colored plastic glove! Who knew?

And, just like any other relationship, we can choose to break up, walk away, have a rocky one, remain steady and stable, be indifferent or grow in love and friendship. And I’m thankful that mine has been the latter. There will always be opportunities for me to trust God in new ways because there will always be people and circumstances that allow for that.

Q: What do you mean?

It’s not only the wonderful events like falling in love/getting married, having children or succeeding in something we’re passionate about where we see God working and where He shapes us. I definitely saw God clearly as He chose my husband for me, blessed me with boys and used my love of the theatre to shape who I am. How true Lamentations 3:25 is; “The Lord is good to those who wait hopefully and expectantly for Him, to those who seek Him.”

But God also uses the difficult events in our lives to strengthen us and develop our characters. It’s through our trials we are taught the unique lessons of suffering (usually painful) and the benefits of discipline and sacrifice (usually hard to do) making us better individuals. But the Good News from Isaiah 43:2 is that God promises to be with us as we pass through the waters and they will not overwhelm us. And when we go through the fire we will not be burned. My anxiety attacks, scoliosis back surgery recovery, seeing my friends and family pass through cancer, betrayal, loss and all sorts of emotional and physical pain have all factored into my friendship and growing up in Jesus. I would not want to go through life without Him!!!

Q: At age seven you were told in order to know Jesus better you should start reading the Bible. Did you start doing that then?

Actually my Grandma Polly gave me a white leather kid’s Bible and I just “went to town” with a red pen and started randomly underlining various scriptures.

Q: Why?

Because Grandma Polly’s Bible was underlined everywhere and she had lots of notes in the margins too. I wanted to be like her and it seemed like the right and spiritual thing to do. But I never really read the Bible until the summer of my freshman year in college when I was a nanny in Darien, CT and the woman I was a nanny for gave me the Good News Bible that she had purchased at a garage sale ( how cool is it that it was called the Good News Bible)?!

Q: So, where did you go with your relationship after the glove encounter?

I attended and was confirmed at the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church in Callaway, MN-- very warm and community friendly (my mom is still involved in the “Ruth Circle”). And presently, my family and I attend the Evangelical Covenant Church in International Falls, MN—another encouraging and supportive family. And yes, church is absolutely important to attend. It’s a place where we can learn, grow, serve, worship and share our gifts with one another. We can have fun there too! I am proud to be member of my church but my identity comes for who I am in Christ. I think it’s so funny what my hairstylist friend Dennis once asked me after several visits of sharing Jesus; “Do you even go to church?” “Sure,” I said. “Why would you think otherwise?” “I don’t know. I guess it’s because you talk about freedom and relationship and not about rules and religion. You just don’t seem like a church person.” I smiled and took it as a compliment.

Q: Okay, so is it from church where you grew in your relationship with Christ or not?

Okay, I see what you’re asking. Yes, church was most definitely a positive influence in my life but I never felt loyal to a denomination but tried instead to be loyal to my relationship with Christ. Besides attending the Lutheran and Covenant churches I’ve also attended the denominations of Four Square, Baptist, and Assemblies of God while in MN and Calvary Chapel when living in Monterey, CA. But I’d say my real understanding of having a relationship with Jesus came from the mentoring of my Aunt Ginger and my growth came from the trials and challenges I faced because I saw His grace, mercy and love given in everything I went through. And the major growth spurt came when I started reading the Bible everyday in 1996; and then, in 2004, I really got to know Jesus because I began writing down His words of encouragement and His promises (which are so personal) in my 3x5 “Manna Book.” Honestly, I thought the novelty of God’s Word working in my everyday life would wear off, but it hasn’t…it only gets more real.

Q: How did Auntie Ginger mentor you?

Ginger always talked about the relationship with Jesus. She never presented me with the rules. And it’s what I so firmly believe in with my own parenting. If our boys understand, love and trust the relationship, they’ll want to trust, follow and obey the rules too because they’ll understand that Jesus has a plan, not to harm them, but plans for their success, hope and a great future (Jeremiah 29:11). The saying, “Rules without relationship lead to rebellion,” I think is so true! I’m a rebel for Jesus but without my relationship with Him I KNOW I’d rebel against what the Bible instructs because frankly some of it is really hard to understand and follow (such as Luke 6:28: “Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who hurt you.”) That’s not easy but I’ve done it and the blessing and peace I’ve received from being obedient is better than I expected too.

Q: What’s one of the best things Ginger taught you?

Ginger was fun and she taught me that as Christians we should absolutely have fun, too! I suppose it might seem kinda weird to say, but having a relationship with Jesus is really fun because it’s really freeing! Yes, Jesus wept, but you better believe He and his disciples had some good “throw back your head” laughs (they were a bunch of men who fished together; can’t you just imagine the fun)?!! God made us unique and so He certainly doesn’t want to take that away from us. He gives us the freedom to appreciate and enjoy the quirks, senses of humor, fun and free spirits in ourselves and others. Just like I love to see my kids laugh and have fun, so too does Jesus with us. As a little girl Ginger called me “Little Baby Tender Love” (after the doll, made by Mattel that was popular in the 1970’s) and she did things with puppets and voices…completely entertaining to be around. All through my growing up I never felt “preached at” but instead I was encouraged and uplifted and so I had fun being a Christian! Which is what Jesus wants and talks about in Galatians 5:1: So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law. Isn’t that so good?!

Q: You want to keeping talk about Ginger don’t you?

Yes, because I always said if I were to have a golden image of something it would be of Ginger. But what makes her amazing, or makes anyone amazing for that matter, is an honesty, vulnerability and realness displayed. It’s humility really, because the truly humble person recognizes their strengths and weaknesses and accepts them as God-given tools to help, teach and encourage others. And that’s who Ginger was and is in my life. I want to serve God with the gifts He’s given me just like Auntie Ginger serves with hers! Ginger’s a good ambassador for Him! Okay, now my plug for Auntie Ginger and Uncle Stan who are president and wife of The Kings College, which is housed in the Empire State Building. Check it out: http://www.tkc.edu/

Q: What about your parents and brother? How did your relationships with them influence or help you know Jesus?

They’re great parents, not perfect, but great. My mom and dad love me and they’re proud of me. That’s huge. It’s so important when we’re growing up to have that love and security from our parents. And because of that I was able to discover who I was, who I am. Now don’t get me wrong, I could have a page called; “About Family Issues” (couldn’t we all?). But the fact that my mom was and is a believer, as well as an encourager, who still supports me in every way imaginable has had a great influence on my life. I remember coming home from college the fall of my freshman year and, because our relationship was so close, I told her everything. I said; “Mom, I just want you to know I have decided to smoke pot when I get back to school.” Mom simply replied. “Well, Debbie, that’s disappointing but it’s your decision. I’m not going to tell you ‘no’ but I do think it’s unwise.” I don’t know if it was because she let me decide or what, but I never did try pot and that’s that. I love her.

My dad, who isn’t a believer (yet), gave me two very valuable things that also greatly affect who I am. First, he openly showed affection and loved me as a father should love his daughter and second, he encouraged me to take risks and be adventurous. I always thought that it is so amazing that he was completely okay with me declaring myself a theatre major at a private liberal arts school. I’m the one who added the speech and education classes at the end of my sophomore year. The fact that he believed I could perform on Broadway someday? Wow! I lived abroad in Sweden for a year, traveled throughout Europe, vacationed in Crete and went to Japan on a mission’s trip, all because Dad was there cheering “Go for it!” I love him.

I also must say that my younger brother Jay was really great about letting me be me (and he knows Jesus too—he met Him in Norway when he lived abroad). Every year Jay allowed me to costume him for a Christmas show that I directed and we performed for mom and dad and the Norwegian exchange students we had living with us (and no, not a drop of Scandinavian blood in us—it’s another story). And Jay let me dress him up “just for fun” for all the skits we performed in the lodge, too. I love him.

But it’s all about balance because real love (like that of my parents and brother) also has boundaries and rules which, when we obey, bring blessings and peace. And hard work helps to develop character. I can’t say I always had the greatest attitude with my family but I was obedient and worked hauling sap buckets, hauling brush, stacking wood, doing dishes in the lodge, and cleaning/organizing the house (I liked the organizing part--my motto still is: “everything has a place and there’s a place for everything”). Yes, my upbringing definitely helped me to know love, experience freedom and live a non-religious life.

Q: What! You aren’t religious?

No. I actually bristle a little if someone calls me religious. If someone said to you, “You should hang out and get to know Debbie. She’s really religious,” would you want to? I’m guessing you’d say “No.” I’d say, “No”. A religious person sounds stuffy and rule focused. But Jesus didn’t die on the cross so we could have a religion. He died on the cross so we could have a real and intimate relationship with Him. And think about it, Christianity without Jesus would simply be another religion.

Q: So what are you?

I’m a Christian, a follower of Jesus, a sinner who needs His grace, strength and mercy everyday! I’m weak. But there is Good News in 2 Corinthians 12:9 where Christ says: “My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness.” I love how the Amplified Bible reads as Paul boasts about his weaknesses; “Therefore, I will all the more gladly glory in my weaknesses and infirmities, that the strength and power of Christ may rest (yes, may pitch a tent over and dwell) upon me!” Don’t you just love that picture of Christ covering you with a tent of strength, when you’re at your weakest?! That is really, really good news, isn’t it

Q: What about the people who say: “Fine, if you’re so weak go to Jesus, but I know better and I’m living my life the way I want to. And don’t think you’re better than me just because you have Jesus! You leave me alone to my beliefs and I’ll leave you alone to yours.”

I can’t leave them alone.

Q: Why?

Because God’s put a love in my heart for others and really we all have needs and hurts that God wants to take care of. Jesus is the answer we are all looking for. I want to tell them this Good News! I do. I do. I really do.

I see it like this: Before someone becomes a Christian they’re always eating but never really filling themselves up, in fact they’re always hungry. But one day they taste and see (from Psalm 34:8) that the Lord is good and they realize they were actually starving. But once Jesus is in their lives they’re completely filled up. So my question is always this; If you saw someone that was starving and you had at one time been hungry and starving yourself would you be superior to that person because you’re not starving anymore?

Good Point.

Everyone has a void that they’re trying to fill. Some people fill it with drugs and alcohol; others fill it with material things, money, their career, a title, power, a relationship, etc. But the only thing that can fill the empty space and leave us filled and satisfied is a relationship with Jesus Christ. If we live our lives centered on us all we worry about is us and what makes us happy. But happiness is based on happenings/circumstances and I believe what we’re all longing for is peace of mind and joy no matter what’s going on or who’s bugging us. I’m telling you from experience that when my life began to CHANGE for the better it was because I asked God to change me rather than crying to Him to change others and my circumstances. Really, it’s when I recognized my addiction problem that things got better.

Q: Addiction problem?

Yes, I’m a recovering addict. I’m self-addicted.

Q: What do you mean by self-addiction?

I learned about self-addiction from reading Don Miller’s book, Blue Like Jazz. I absolutely agree with what he writes; “No drug is so powerful as the drug of self. No rut in the mind is so deep as the one that says I am the world, the world belongs to me, all people are characters in my play. There is no addiction so powerful as self-addiction.” Don adds, ’I discovered that my mind is like a radio that picks up only one station, the one that plays me: K-Don, all Don, all the time’ “And I’m thinking me too Don, except that my station is playing: K-Deb, all Deb, all the time.”

Q: That’s a good and fun way of looking at it, Debbie! You’re saying that self-addicts only look, judge and condemn others rather than facing what they need to change in themselves. And we can’t change others, only God can do that…right?

Exactly. Once we begin to experience God’s love and forgiveness in our own everyday lives we get our minds off of self and shift it to serving others, which is how we get the peace and joy we so desperately want and need. It’s also when we become hungry to feast on that powerful self-help book that’s out there.

Q: Self-help book?

The BIBLE! It’s so good because it covers EVERYTHING! Look what it says about self-addiction in Luke 6:37: “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn others, or it will all come back against you. Forgive others, and you will be forgiven.” It’s showing that in order for us to be free from “all about me” we need to forgive.

Q: But what if we’ve been unfairly hurt, judged and condemned? Do we have to forgive then? I mean really, what about the affair our spouse had or the abuse in our past? You’re not saying we have to forgive that stuff?

Well, I’m not saying it, God is. HE LOVES YOU and He wants you to be set free. Unforgiveness and bitterness is nasty stuff to swallow. It’s like drinking poison and then waiting for the other person to die. And yes, there should be forgiveness of those who’ve offended us in the most terrible of ways, but, be reassured, it doesn’t necessarily mean reconciliation, especially in cases of abuse. Let me tell you, the enemy knows that if we don’t let go of the root of bitterness and anger, of being hurt and offended, he’s won. He’s a stealer of peace, a robber of joy. And the only way to have that peace that passes understanding and joy is by forgiving our offenders in every way—emotionally, spiritually and mentally. God never says life will be fair but He does say He will bring justice. It won’t always be easy but He will never leave us or forsake us.

And God does promise to avenge us in Romans 12:19: “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” And I choose to believe and trust Him on this. There are some grievous and hurtful things that have happened in my life and without letting go and forgiving I wouldn’t be able to talk about this great peace and joy I now have and want everyone else to know about too.

Q: Okay, Debbie. What else do you want to tell us about Jesus?

I really want to communicate this; GOD LOVES US NO MATTER WHAT, right where we’re at. Christianity is a “come as you are” party. And nothing, absolutely nothing, we do will ever stop or change His love. I really want everyone to say “YES” to Jesus and receive His gift of love and forgiveness because once we do we enter into this wonderful relationship and learn about all the great things God promises for an awesome, fun, free and wonderfully abundant life. And at the end of this life we are promised a perfect one in heaven! It’s all win-win!

Q: And…?

Always remember, God isn’t looking at a chart of our good and bad deeds to decide whether or not He will help us. Yes, He’ll deal with us on the things that need dealing with, in His perfect time, BUT WHEN WE CRY OUT FOR JESUS HE IS THERE! And when we’re hurting really bad and we want answers to our difficult questions and it’s hard to hear what He says in Isaiah 55:8, “My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways,” remember He loves us so much and, even though we might not understand the mind of God, we can understand the heart of God. We might not understand WHY but we can know He has a way and the strength for us to face whatever we may be facing. Job didn’t say; “My Disciplinarian lives.” He said; “My Redeemer Lives!” (Job 19:25)

Q: You can’t end this interview, Debbie, without bringing in the cliché, can you?

True. I really like it: “Be ye fishers of men. You catch em’-He’ll clean them.”

It’s not our job to clean up the lives of others…that’s God’s “job!” It’s our “job” to live a life of love! And I’m so thankful God’s given me a ministry where I get to encourage others to know about the love and freedom He has for us. Of course I talk about the Bible because that’s where all the answers are for getting cleaned up!

I know once you trust and receive God’s real and unconditional love for you you’ll be saying; “I get to read the Bible” and not, “I have to.” And then…you’ll want to start your own fishing program and tell everyone the amazing things I’m telling you…everyday.